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Atheism as cause for existence (Read 6579 times)
h-old
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Atheism as cause for existence
04/26/05 at 06:38:18
 
did you wonder the only reason the existence precedes essense is the denial of anything larger than oneself. Essense could be a God, society, cause. The prerequite for existence taking supreme place is denial of God and any other human (made) institution.
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Victor Hugo
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Re: Atheism as cause for existence
Reply #1 - 08/15/05 at 15:20:32
 
I dont Know if the atheism as cause of existence.  The existence preceds the essence, and if i say other thing preceds the existence this "other thing" take the place of the human and the existence become dependent of the atheism. I dont believed atheism preceds ( the cause) existence.
 
apologyze my english, i'm not good!
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Aodon_McFarley
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Re: Atheism as cause for existence
Reply #2 - 11/15/05 at 13:55:23
 
We are free to choose what we want to be. You choose who you want to be. An acorn grows into a tree a caterpillar into a butterfly etc...its essence is what determines what it is, what determines us? ourselves. free will and all that but are you free if you do not choose, more so are you free if you choose not to choose?
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magus
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Re: Atheism as cause for existence
Reply #3 - 11/16/05 at 16:14:03
 
Quote from Aodon_McFarley   on 11/15/05 at 13:55:23:
We are free to choose what we want to be. You choose who you want to be. An acorn grows into a tree a caterpillar into a butterfly etc...its essence is what determines what it is, what determines us? ourselves. free will and all that but are you free if you do not choose, more so are you free if you choose not to choose?

 
 
is this semantics at the end? You may choose to be aware of your actions or just let others choose for you. Either way, you die. The joys of life which is similar to a caterpillar enjoying its leaf, end all in death.
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Aodon_McFarley
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Re: Atheism as cause for existence
Reply #4 - 11/17/05 at 12:32:54
 
True...but how are you sure everything ends in death? do you have to be a christian to believe in the afterlife? asking that because i am not. True that everything does come to some end but what proof is there to show the satisfaction(if there is any) in life is the same as a caterpillar eating a leaf, what do we know of other peoples minds let alone other species?
 Are we all destined for the same end?
so what difference does it make to the dead person if  they are dead are not. what difference does life make if you die at the end of it, does that mean there is some purpose which we are enlightened upon at death?
It all seems quite pessimistic to me, sure i'm going to die but what the hell can i do about it?  
I'm reading a few of Sartre's books at the moment so i'm just getting my head around it all, anyway...........
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jamal
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Re: Atheism as cause for existence
Reply #5 - 11/20/05 at 18:56:34
 
Hello everyone, this is my first post...
I think that h-old has put forth a very interesting thought, and indeed I have thought about atheism/existence in those terms -- at least based on the way that Sartre put it. Speaking of whom, from my understanding, I do believe he based his existentialist ideas on atheism itself, and it served as a foundation.
 
In response to Victor, I do recognize that you may not be speaking about Sartre in particular, but rather your own take on the question at hand, in which case I would find it very interesting to further develop a discussion on this particular point of atheism not preceding existence. So, do you think atheism is a product of existentialist thought? Or is it necessary that one does not believe in a god for one to be existentialist?
 
Which brings me to my next point which was brought up by Aodon: does one need to be  Christian (or Muslim or Jewish at that) to believe in the afterlife? Personally, no I do not think one needs to be religious to believe in "life" after death. Do we have any proof? Absolutely not.
 
I do not believe that anyone can be absolutely sure of anything. And take a more "classical" philosophical approach to reality, I can never really "prove" that I am the one who posted this message you are currently reading. Sure it has my name on it, and whatever other information, but the question is, is it truly ME? And is there any way I can prove that? The past cannot be taken as reality, only the momentary present can -- and even that is arguable, as it could be an illusion...just ask Descartes Wink
 
The question is -- as I am sure you are aware -- is very old, and existentialism can be very depressing as it suggests that you have been thrown into a meaningless, "unsympathetic" world where you are on your own. No wonder we "cling" to society, and conventional labels to feel comfortable. This is an endless cycle that we can talk about for days...
 
I hope I made some sense, as I am no expert at this at all, as you can probably tell  embarrassed
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magus
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Re: Atheism as cause for existence
Reply #6 - 11/21/05 at 10:50:27
 
Quote from Aodon_McFarley   on 11/17/05 at 12:32:54:
True...but how are you sure everything ends in death? do you have to be a christian to believe in the afterlife? asking that because i am not. True that everything does come to some end but what proof is there to show the satisfaction(if there is any) in life is the same as a caterpillar eating a leaf, what do we know of other peoples minds let alone other species?
Are we all destined for the same end?
so what difference does it make to the dead person if they are dead are not.

 
I remember that in Being and Nothingness, Sartre wrote that if person A dies, person A has ended his existence. However, if person A dies, but person B remembers person A then person A is alive through person B.  
 
Sartre's example shows that He believed in afterlife through other's memory of him. Personally, I think it is a worthless concept.
I exist, I enjoy, I am aware of my surrounding. For others to remember me does not do it for me. The joy or anger that I feel about others remembering me may work for me but if I am not aware of it then it does not matter.
 
On the other hand, as someone seeking to have full choice of his own existence, to expect something beyond this natural life is pointless. There is no SCIENTIFIC proof of life after natural life. To base one's course of action based on speculation seems very non-existentialist.
 
 
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Aodon_McFarley
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Re: Atheism as cause for existence
Reply #7 - 11/23/05 at 11:43:46
 
...
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Aodon_McFarley
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Re: Atheism as cause for existence
Reply #8 - 11/23/05 at 11:45:32
 
I have not read B&N but it does seem pretty pointless to say that one can exist after their death through someone elses memory, it is like saying Hamlet exists because actors play his character, or he can be read in the play.
 in a way this kind of echoes what he said in his book the imagination... we think of someone far away or we imagine them or desire them, which in turn brings about the image of them.
That does not make that image a different person, there are not two of the same person. But i think that he is overlooking the fact that it is the desire of wanting the person to be there that makes the person 'exist'.
 By remembering someone who is no longer there is merely recalling from memory of what was there before, and that memory is stationary because, if for example someone believes that sartre still exists because they remember them (as magus put it in the above reply), then this sartre would be able to make new ideas and theories that go beyond what he used to write, but he cannot so how can he exist again. I Don't know i may be making no sense on it but there ya go. undecided
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