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relationships in sartre-speak (Read 7180 times)
iloah666
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relationships in sartre-speak
10/31/05 at 02:29:02
 
does anybody want to discuss the relationships between  
a] nothingness and anxiety
b] bad faith and choice
c] freedom and the project
 
and has anybody read 'huis clos'?  one of the greatest texts i've read about hell besides dante's inferno.  can anybody recommend something similar?  i've read all of beckett's stuff and thats the closest I can find.
 
doesn't seem like too many people sign in here on a regular basis.  if they had a jean paul sartre nude gallery ill bet they would.
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magus
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Re: relationships in sartre-speak
Reply #1 - 10/31/05 at 15:41:06
 
nude gallery of Sartre  Grin Grin
 
I don't think so. On the contrary, people will be scared.
 
regarding your b) what do you mean by bad faith. Do you mean bad religion?
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iloah666
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Re: relationships in sartre-speak
Reply #2 - 10/31/05 at 21:20:40
 
no, his concept of bad faith 'mauvais fois', or self decetption.
"Bad faith is the attempt to escape anguish by pretending to ourselves that we are not free. We try to convince ourselves that our attitudes and actions are determined by our character, our situation, our role in life, or anything other than ourselves"
 
thats why i used  the phrase 'sartre-speak' everything listed above is his terminology some of which i am a bit rough on and need some help for an exam.
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iloah666
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Re: relationships in sartre-speak
Reply #3 - 10/31/05 at 21:35:11
 
to help your understanding further, since you are obviously not clued into being and nothingness yet at this point, Sartre gives two famous examples of bad faith. He pictures a girl sitting with a man who she knows very well would like to seduce her. But when he takes her hand, she tries to avoid the painful necessity of a decision to accept or reject him, by pretending not to notice, leaving her hand in his as if she were not aware of it. She pretends to herself that she is a passive object, a thing, rather than what she really is, a conscious being who is free. The second illustration of the cafe waiter who is doing his job just a little too keenly; he is obviously 'acting the part'. If there is bad faith here, it is that he is trying to identify himself completely with the role of waiter, to pretend that this particular role determines his every action and attitude. Whereas the truth is that he has chosen to take on the job, and is free to give it up at any time. He is not essentially a waiter, for no man is essentially anything.
 
now can somebody help me?
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magus
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Re: relationships in sartre-speak
Reply #4 - 11/01/05 at 10:43:51
 
Thanks for the clarification.  
 
Hopefully, somebody with more knowledge of Sartre would help you.
 
On the other hand, let me give you my thoughts on your "bad faith":
In the example of the girl, she chose to be passive. that is still choice. The reality of choice is that there are consequences. The guy who held her might have thought she likes him and proceed to kiss her.
No choice is still a choice. The issue of being aware of our actions is what makes the difference. At the end of the day, choosing to be unaware of my existence is still a choice.
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jamal
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Re: relationships in sartre-speak
Reply #5 - 11/20/05 at 19:31:06
 
Hi iloah, and mangus.
 
I don't know if I am posting too late in terms of timing for your exam, but I would be interested in discussing some of the things you have mentioned iloah.
 
This is obviously all from my personal undertanding.
 
a)
The universe is really completely devoid of purpose or meaning. We as individuals (I stress "individuals") are thrown into this universe without any essential pre-determined "qualities" or "human nature". This concept of the purposeless world can be summerized with "nothingness" . When an existentialist "transcends", one becomes elevated above "convention" and human nature, and realizes one's position. A person absorbed in the society that they live in have a nature (which in turn is determined by society of course), and lives one's life according to the predetermined nature. It is like that saying goes: going on the right path in life. So someone may go on the right path in life, or the wrong path in life. Either way, you would have an outline, or a set of properties that determine, and create a path for you according to "human nature".
 
An existentialist does not have a predetermined "path" because there is no predetermined nature. As a result, one walks into complete darkness, so-to-speak, not knowing what lies ahead. This brings a feeling of anxiety. Unlike normal fear -- in which you are afraid of something in particular -- anxiety is the fear of nothing in particular, it is the fear of the unknown, and what lies ahead.
 
b)
Since we have complete "freedom" as beings in this universe, we are therefore completely responsible for every choice that leads to an action or any situation. As you may realize, if a man points a gun at your head and kills you, YOU are still responsible for that, because ultimately you are the one who chose to be at the "wrong location" at the "wrong time".  Even if you didn't choose to be at the location -- so if you were forced to go there -- you are still responsible because you somehow associated yourself with the person/organization/entity that forced you to do so...so basically you can always backtrack enough to realize that you are always resonsible for everything except your birth (I'm not even sure about that, I don't know if sperm have consciousness Tongue)
 
If we refuse to accept this respobsibility, then we are acting in "bad" faith (as the woman in Sartre's story). However, we ultimately choose to act in bad faith, meaning we choose not to choose. "Not to decide is to decide" (The Existentialist Philosopher, The Case For Freedom, 100 -- my apologies I have lost the author's name..its a good read if you can find it through the title alone). This of course underlines Sartre's point that we are "condemnded to be free" (same source). Therefore we choose to be authentic, or not authentic.
 
c)
For this point, could you please remind me what "the project" means exactly? It sounds awefully familiar, but I probably am used to another term or something. I think its something to do with the process of realizing our facticity, transcending it, and then being authentic, with every action being part of the project??
 
I hope this is somewhat useful, or helpful, and may prompt a further discussion. Smiley
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Re: jamel's 11-20-05 on the term 'project'
Reply #6 - 12/25/05 at 11:27:47
 
Belated response.  Just got on board.  'Project' is one of sartre' most often used terms.  Try 'Search for a Method' pp. 150-2, then 105-9.  Notably it is not in the present as presence but in the future.  The term, 'projection' Sartre uses in conjunction with the project and not as psychoanalytical.  Good luck.
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GR
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Re: relationships in sartre-speak
Reply #7 - 01/26/06 at 16:26:25
 
Hi.  I just got a pretty interesting question during my english class.  We were discussing existentialism and reduction, and my teacher gave us a paper with Jim Carrey from Dumb and Dumber.  In the top left the word reduction was written.  He was asking us if Jim Carrey from Dumb and Dumber shows reduction.  I think so because of his simplicity.  What do you think?
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FrankenFred
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Re: relationships in sartre-speak
Reply #8 - 04/14/07 at 22:20:59
 
Seriously who cares? Sartre was just another blowhard who filled peoples heads with nonsense.
 
Just do what works and leave it at that.
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